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Author Topic: Summoner (1.5)  (Read 7555 times)

kuukkeli

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Summoner (1.5)
« on: Sep 23, 2009; 06:58 AM »
With all the changes I'm going to give Summoner another try. My old build is completely outdated in this new environment so I'm looking for some advice. I'll start with some questions that some of you might have found an answer already.

1: How much does Elemental Revenge increase damage at each rank (it starts at 16% but how's the progression)? Same question about Elemental Fortitude and health?

2: How badly did the patch lower Warper's damage (any numbers or even estimation based on experience)?

Assuming that Warper is no longer clearly above others I'm kind of tempted by Witch Doctor build where elementals are primary damage source. Here's what I have this far.

10 - 14 Elementals (Force, Storm, Toxic)
4 Witch Doctor (with +skill items on change)
10 Elemental Revenge
1 Elemental Nova
5 Master of the Elements
3 Blood Link
2 Afterlife
1 Blood Surge

That's 36-40 skill points so I still have 10-14 left (possibly more depending on damage progression with Elemental Revenge and/or dependency on +skill items). Then more questions (this time with less emphasis on experience or knowledge on 1.5).

3. Does Witch Doctor get into melee a lot? If he manages to stay behind Force Elementals then Summoning Circle and Summoning Empowerment seem kind of pointless, right?

4. How useful is Dominate (I've never played WD before)?

5. How well does WD keep Force Elementals alive or in other words would Elemental Fortitude lower their death rate considerably?

6. Does WD heal himself?

7. Any opinions why or why not use the newly available Poison Tree?
Reppana - Evoker - 55r26 (The Korean Group)
Ressukka - Engineer - 50r21 (The Korean Group)
Rukkanen - Guardian - 50r6 (Revival)
Raasu - Blademaster - 40
Lapanen - Marksman - 40
Rupu - Summoner - 5

ZenZombie

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #1 on: Sep 23, 2009; 07:12 AM »
Excuse me but I am unsure of which build you are referring to. I know of no build which allows the summoner access to the poison tree.
Please give me a link so I can assist you.
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kuukkeli

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #2 on: Sep 23, 2009; 07:54 AM »
Quote from: "ZenZombie"
Excuse me but I am unsure of which build you are referring to. I know of no build which allows the summoner access to the poison tree.
Please give me a link so I can assist you.

The latest patch on Korean server gave Summoner an access to Poison Tree and made other rather big changes (see the patch notes thread on this very forum). No link to a build because 1) opening post already has the current state of my plan and 2) I'm not aware of any English build planners supporting post 1.5 classes.

I hope you noticed that this post is on a Korea sub-forum  :)
Reppana - Evoker - 55r26 (The Korean Group)
Ressukka - Engineer - 50r21 (The Korean Group)
Rukkanen - Guardian - 50r6 (Revival)
Raasu - Blademaster - 40
Lapanen - Marksman - 40
Rupu - Summoner - 5

ZenZombie

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #3 on: Sep 23, 2009; 08:55 AM »
Epic fail on my part. I totally forgot there was even a Hellgate Korea. To me there is only dead MP, mod sp, and eventual Revival sp/mp

Wish I could be of more assistance :(

Perhaps you could use the evoker/summoner planner in my signature to get a rough idea of your point spread?
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kuukkeli

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #4 on: Sep 24, 2009; 10:56 PM »
Well, I guess I'll try the Witch Doctor build with some of the new skills. I'll post the per rank info on those that I'll take later.
Reppana - Evoker - 55r26 (The Korean Group)
Ressukka - Engineer - 50r21 (The Korean Group)
Rukkanen - Guardian - 50r6 (Revival)
Raasu - Blademaster - 40
Lapanen - Marksman - 40
Rupu - Summoner - 5

thegreatcthulhu

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #5 on: Sep 25, 2009; 02:55 AM »
Witch Doctor
- Aside from the increased healing effectiveness to your party members, I do not know if the Witch Doctor can heal himself now. I also do not know about his behavior, but judging from the way the Priests that Moloch summons, I'd say that monsters like the Witch Doctor do their best to play coward and hide behind the thing they're healing.

And yes, he does heal your Elementals. Just don't expect to see how much; I don't think they added a life bar for them (not like you'd want those covering up your screen anyway.)


Elemental Revenge/Fortitude
- I am not 100% sure on the increments of Elemental Fortitude and Revenge. I think I read somewhere that they are something like 5% per skill point after level 1, but I want to say that was just a bad translation (I had to rely upon inference and Google Translator for the patch notes :-/ ).

However, I will note that the times I've partied with summoners who have used Elemental Fortitude/Revenge, their elementals IMO were a LOT stronger than they used to be. The Force Elementals are much tougher, and the toxic elementals are great little walking plague canisters!

Dominate
- Dominate can be useful if you like using other monsters as weapons. It can even be used on Moloch to help kill off his priests. The downside of Dominate is that you can't hurt anything that becomes mind controlled until the mind control wears off. And of course, monsters can resist the effects of it, so multiple castings can be required if its level is too low.

The Warper
- Sadly, everyone's favorite purple spinning, squeeky thing that blows stuff up took a pretty significant damage reduction. He's still a force to be reckoned with, but don't expect him to be blowing up stuff as quickly as he used to early on in the game. His HP amount is still generated randomly too, btw.


That Poison Tree
-The main reason why they added the poison tree to the Summoner & Evoker's shared spell list was to give the summoner more use for focus items. And also to give more power to the yet to be added Dark Form summoner since DF uses focus items for its melee damage.

But other than that, the Poison tree can be very powerful if you decide to use it. Think of it this way - with Swarm AND Toxic Elementals.... you're pretty a nuclear waste delivery truck. And need I remind that poison did get buffed? ;)
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kuukkeli

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #6 on: Sep 25, 2009; 03:41 AM »
Quote from: "thegreatcthulhu"
Elemental Revenge/Fortitude
- I am not 100% sure on the increments of Elemental Fortitude and Revenge.

I'm lvl 16 now and I can say that the increment for Elemental Revenge after the 1st rank is +6%. That presumably gives +70% at rank 10 which sounds pretty good. I'm still pondering whether Fortitude is needed or not (need more levels to figure that out).

Quote
Dominate
- Dominate can be useful if you like using other monsters as weapons. It can even be used on Moloch to help kill off his priests. The downside of Dominate is that you can't hurt anything that becomes mind controlled until the mind control wears off. And of course, monsters can resist the effects of it, so multiple castings can be required if its level is too low.

So the effectiveness of Dominate depends on points spent? Does that make it all or nothing skill?

Quote
That Poison Tree
But other than that, the Poison tree can be very powerful if you decide to use it. Think of it this way - with Swarm AND Toxic Elementals.... you're pretty a nuclear waste delivery truck. And need I remind that poison did get buffed? ;)

Actually that's pretty close to why I've been thinking it: after all I'm standing idle behind my elementals and I'd presume that with Swarm I'd be doing more damage than with my guns. I'm surely keeping that option open.

BTW, the quest that replaced notorious The Wall is pretty damn hard for almost untwinked Summoner. My first attempt ended in sound victory for Beelzebub.

EDIT: Here's my current plan. Any comments are welcome.

7 Force Elemental
2 Storm Elemental
3 Toxic Elemental
7 Elemental Revenge (+3 from an item)
3 Elemental Nova
5 Master of the Elements

1 Carnagor (silly pre-requirement)
4 Witch Doctor (+6 from items)
1 Reaper
3 Blood Link

2 Afterlife
1 Blood Surge
2 Venomous Spirit
2 Venom Armor
7 Swarm (+3 from an item)

I'm planning to have 2x +3 Witch Doctor on change. Primary set should be +3 Elemental Revenge gun and +3 Swarm Slipnaught (yeah, I'm aiming high).
Reppana - Evoker - 55r26 (The Korean Group)
Ressukka - Engineer - 50r21 (The Korean Group)
Rukkanen - Guardian - 50r6 (Revival)
Raasu - Blademaster - 40
Lapanen - Marksman - 40
Rupu - Summoner - 5

thegreatcthulhu

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #7 on: Sep 26, 2009; 12:37 AM »
You're not going to put any points into summoning circle or that other skill that buffs the main summons?

Quote
So the effectiveness of Dominate depends on points spent? Does that make it all or nothing skill?

It's not as bad as you'd think -look at it like the Guardian taunts. But if you really want to mind control monsters, I'd recommend just getting a mind control weapon. They drop a lot and are easy to come by, and they give you more +to mind control effectiveness than 1 level of dominate.

Speaking of those things... sigh, I wish the Koreans had put the Master's Hand and Kara's Kaleidoscope (if that is what it was called?) back into the drop lists. Both of those were unique mind control weps that gave +1 to all summoner skills. I found 2 Master Hands and at least 4 of the Kaleidoscopes on Shulgoth before Flagship took them off the drop lists for some reason.
Not to us, Lord, but to Your Name give the glory
    - The Templar Motto

Teach me, empower me, purify me, release me
      - The Templar Prayer

kuukkeli

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #8 on: Sep 26, 2009; 04:38 AM »
Quote from: "thegreatcthulhu"
You're not going to put any points into summoning circle or that other skill that buffs the main summons?

If Witch Doctor can stay behind the lines I don't see that as a problem. Besides, there's no points to spare :lol:
Reppana - Evoker - 55r26 (The Korean Group)
Ressukka - Engineer - 50r21 (The Korean Group)
Rukkanen - Guardian - 50r6 (Revival)
Raasu - Blademaster - 40
Lapanen - Marksman - 40
Rupu - Summoner - 5

kuukkeli

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #9 on: Oct 14, 2009; 01:55 AM »
Just started Nightmare with this one (thanks on3fr3akaz0id). I'm pretty sure there'll be some changes to the build and again I'd appreciate any opinions. Here's what I've already spent points on (lvl 31 so there's 4 points left at the moment):

4 Force Elemental
2 Storm Elemental
2 Toxic Elemental
7 Elemental Revenge
3 Elemental Nova
1 Master of the Elements

1 Carnagor
4 Witch Doctor
2 Blood Link

1 Afterlife

I'm planning either 6/2/2 or 6/3/3 for elementals (6/4/2 is a possibility as well but I don't know if 4 Storm Elementals would have much use outside Stonehenge).

Guildhall made me seriously consider Elemental Fortitude as well because area attacks (those husks that summon fire elementals, fellbore strikers, tormenters, etc.) tend to kill my elementals very quickly. Especially those husks seem to be far more deadly than they used to be on Shulgoth - half a dozen in a room and I'm happy to kill one and be able to retreat alive to re-summon my elementals.

That one point in Afterlife feels almost wasted and I'm definitely not spending any more points on that tree. Witch Doctor is doing well enough on the healing department.

That poison tree still bothers me. I think I'll find myself a focus with Swarm and see how well it works before spending any points there. Also I'd remember that pretty often Evokers only had 1 point in Swarm so I don't know if 2/2/1 would be enough (or even go for higher Venom Armor and take 2/7/1 - after all due to elementals I'm spending most of my time quite close to the enemy). If I skip the poison tree would Elemental Fortitude be my best option with the remaining few points spent on... something?

Ideas, suggestions, mockery, anything that comes to mind  ;)
Reppana - Evoker - 55r26 (The Korean Group)
Ressukka - Engineer - 50r21 (The Korean Group)
Rukkanen - Guardian - 50r6 (Revival)
Raasu - Blademaster - 40
Lapanen - Marksman - 40
Rupu - Summoner - 5

zart

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #10 on: Nov 15, 2009; 12:30 AM »
Quote from: "ZenZombie"
Epic fail on my part. I totally forgot there was even a Hellgate Korea. To me there is only dead MP, mod sp, and eventual Revival sp/mp

Wish I could be of more assistance :(

Perhaps you could use the evoker/summoner planner in my signature to get a rough idea of your point spread?

lol
SquidlordBetty - Evoker Interruptus - 51/8
BunnyHuntress - Saw Drone Engi - 55/3
OneEyedTracy - BM - 41
HellenaHanbasket - Elemental Summoner - 51/2
SistrBubbles - Guardian - 40

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Flash

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #11 on: Nov 15, 2009; 01:34 AM »
I don't like the idea of giving summoner poision tree. It's like giving blade master shield tree or provoke tree, giving marksman bot tree etc. If I want poison I play evoker, if I want summon madness I play summoner.

Galtrovan

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Re: Summoner (1.5)
« Reply #12 on: Nov 17, 2009; 05:21 PM »
Quote from: "Flash"
I don't like the idea of giving summoner poision tree. It's like giving blade master shield tree or provoke tree, giving marksman bot tree etc. If I want poison I play evoker, if I want summon madness I play summoner.

This and the Dark Form skills slapped onto the Summoner are BS, along with all the other slapped on skills added to the other classes.  This is all a result of Flagship's desperate need to get content added and out the door, and now Hanbit's need to do the same.

The shape-shifting/Dark Form skills were to be for the 3rd Class of the Cabal faction for crying out loud.
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