Author Topic: London 2038 feedback  (Read 1048 times)

Seferoth

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London 2038 feedback
« on: Jan 29, 2022; 11:39 pm »
Quite awful patch(1.5.7b) in my opinion. Too many nerfs and too many changes from the original. I also really dislike the new skill trees. those should have remained mostly unchanged. I think i will stick with the Steam version, surprisingly it seems more faithful to the original Hellgate: London.
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Bryan

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Re: London 2038 feedback
« Reply #1 on: Jan 30, 2022; 04:09 am »
Sorry to hear that Seferoth, I truly hoped the old guard like you would like this one.

Now, I understand this is not the purpose of this thread, but I'd like to take a moment to answer those concerns.
Too many nerfs
Reading standalone nerfs may be unpleasant, but those have a specific context. The Evoker ones, which are probably the ones you're referring to, are explained for this reason - along with their context.
For some more, the class is the most consistent at reproducing the "armor break" bug (unless it is not, which I haven't seen indications for). This we can't fix, as it's not our game, so some such compromises need to be made.
too many changes from the original.
I wouldn't find changes in themselves a negative. What we've been doing has always aimed at improving the game we got, which both the team and players always seem to agree was "incomplete" and lacking in many areas. We couldn't both keep those shortcomings in and address those concerns, certainly.
Moreover, much of what we've been doing is directly based on what FSS intended and planned for. The 2-handed Templar guns were their concept, for instance, and they had left strings on this behind - we just materialized what they didn't have time to.
I also really dislike the new skill trees. those should have remained mostly unchanged.
Understandable, I think, if you're referring to the Summoner additions. Still, this too falls in line with the above; Eles cause crashes we can't yet address, and we both thought and were told that zoo builds always lacked customization. That's what those sought to fix.
But I can't judge tastes, by any means. All I can do is explain, so that a fellow modder can see where we came from.
I think i will stick with the Steam version, surprisingly it seems more faithful to the original Hellgate: London.
This bit however I have to disagree with. Global made a slew of changes of their own, including to established dialogues and stories - which we left untouched. Their changes sought to generate revenue, while ours are player-driven. Yes, we added content as they did, but how is, say, their Tokyo more faithful to the original than our HGA tribute in Australia, or their random Tower addition more than our tutorial?
I understand it might seem that way as the years go by, but remember how much they changed which we didn't; off a quick search alone:
That's before cash items and pets, the Forge and its new system (and Preservatives), the removal of HC, the item-bound resurrections, the massive changes to models and maps, and so on.
We, on the other hand, preserved mostly everything that didn't pose a massive threat, and tried to fix what was objectionable. So while everything else I can let go as a difference of opinion, despite our hopefully understandable reasons for this course, this one statement I find unfair and untrue.

All that said, I hope the future brings something you'll like more. The entire point of the whole project is to please the players, and it's always unfortunate when it fails to do so.
"Dream big and crash often"
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List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true for the 2018 Steam version.

Seferoth

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Re: London 2038 feedback
« Reply #2 on: Jan 30, 2022; 07:29 am »
I agree that i was a bit unfair on the last part. I am a bit biased towards the Steam version because it is a singleplayer/offline game, i don't personally give a crap about the multiplayer portion of Hellgate: London. For me Hellgate has always been a singleplayer game with added multiplayer. Also because Steam version is SP only no content is locked behind grouping and such. If the 1fps bug would be fixable(permanently without other issues) i would most likely solely play it for all eternity. Alas, that is not the case so London 2038 is still one of the versions i play. However i do apologize the last part of my previous comment, it was written in a heated moment without any constructive commentary or explanation. I will not bring further comments about the current patch or the future patches to this topic...i should have not done it in the first place. Discussions like this merits it's own topic.
You can't have a nightmare if you never dream.

Bryan

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Re: London 2038 feedback
« Reply #3 on: Jan 30, 2022; 01:29 pm »
No hard feelings, I really do understand the SP-first perspective. Kikina seems to share it too, to my knowledge.
Still, that's why we eventually left the hga forums entirely; 2038 is MP by design. Were it to focus on SP and soloability we'd find it hard to justify running a server at all. Yes, it does try to cater to both crowds, but that foundation does mean it has to grouplock content - which the SP-minded players understandably dislike.

For that reason, to return to the thread's topic, I think 2038 "port" mods have the distinct challenge of nerfing content down for solo play - or of buffing the player accordingly, either or. Especially with the coming event this will become a necessity, I feel.

In either case, thank you for conceding that final point. And yes, such discussions will likely need their own thread moving forward - I'll see what might be done about that. 
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true for the 2018 Steam version.

chaos0ne

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Re: London 2038 feedback
« Reply #4 on: Jan 30, 2022; 05:03 pm »
Bryan without your server the game is still a sp game ;) i ithink was there an server to download the game gets public again (like wow serverĀ“s) with mods or original game play.
HGG was a big cash crab on steam (i have buyed it) and i have shown how to fix this 1 fps bug (reading logs and the exe) but i think hanby f*cked it realy uo

Bryan

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Re: London 2038 feedback
« Reply #5 on: Jan 30, 2022; 05:25 pm »
Bryan without your server the game is still a sp game ;)
To be fair, the vanilla SP game is an SP game. Flagship's MP was balanced around multiplayer, and so was Hanbit's Global - which was (somewhat) rebalanced around solo play again in Steam, because that's an SP game too.
What I mean to say is, 2038 is an MP game because it's a continuation of Flagship's MP and is on an online server itself. Like both of those teams before us, we can't justify maintaining a server for people to play SP on - we'd just make SP content if that were the case. Which is why we want to support mods like this one, mind you.

Apologies if I misunderstood your point there though. Still, let's move this discussion to its own thread to avoid cluttering this one.
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true for the 2018 Steam version.

chaos0ne

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Re: London 2038 feedback
« Reply #6 on: Jan 30, 2022; 07:08 pm »

"What I mean to say is, 2038 is an MP game because it's a continuation of Flagship's MP and is on an online server itself"

you have right its your online project but you have some good items that i never see in other mods :) like the dismantler (or who is spelled this thing XD ) and stonehenge and abyss :)
dont missunderstand me i play this version for these things and i have tetsted your server (but the connection you remember). maybe you can tell the other modder how to create such wonderfull items and add the other levels in the sp version when its possible?


Bryan

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Re: London 2038 feedback
« Reply #7 on: Jan 30, 2022; 07:27 pm »
maybe you can tell the other modder how to create such wonderfull items and add the other levels in the sp version when its possible?
As regards the dismantler, I'm afraid I can't; the Piecemaker was made by our devs from scratch, and requires code on top of data. Items (as in gear) I suppose most modders know how to create, so I can only offer inspiration :P

Still, Contra's mod seems to have achieved both and imported 2038 to SP successfully - I'm not a modder myself to offer instructions on how to do so, but his work might.
All I can advise there is to tone down enemies, since many were designed around party play.
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true for the 2018 Steam version.